Friday, October 14, 2011

So damn predictable.

Still waiting to see anybody take notice of a post on the forge without the comments instantly turning into "hurr they are using terms I can't be bothered to understand they can't possibly mean anything by them they must just be using them to sound all smart and stuff let's go take their lunch money on the playground."

Like everybody who plays roleplaying games isn't using a big pile of terms that would be opaque to a random person overhearing them who couldn't be bothered to ask what they meant.

Auditing the thread for Forge-specific terminology:

Vincent's original post, as far as I can tell, did not include a single word of Forge-specific terminology!

Neither did the first reply by Judd.

Eero used the words "gamist" and "coloring" in his very long post.

Vincent's second post used the phrases "Step On Up" (another term for "gamist" or "playing for the sake of exciting challenge" and "Story Now" (another term for "narrativist" or "playing to see what story happens"). The context might have made these clear to someone more inclined to think than to whine.

Callan uses no forge-specific terminology in his reply.

Nor does Vincent in his third post.

Eero uses the word "narrativist."

No forge terminology in James Nostack's post.

Ron refers to an "old, incomplete, Color-first project" in passing.

Vincent's next post had no forge-specific terminology in it.

Callan's had none.

James Nostack's had none.

Vincent's next had none.

Ron's talks about "Color" a lot but his post mainly is talking about how Vincent's expectations, which were not fulfilled, might have been unreasonable, since he didn't take certain obvious steps to help make them happen. (This is ironically similar to what some commenters of Raggi's such as Jeff Rients said, that if the atmosphere of the game is supposed to come into play in a game like this, that the GM must take more of a hand in making that happen, and can't rely on the book enforcing it like it does in some of Vincent's games).

Ron's next mentions the word "Color" again.

Vincent uses the word "color" again. Someone reading thoughtfully would probably have grokked what it meant (atmosphere/look/feel/attitude/style/colorful details) long before this. He also uses the word "framing".

David Berg's post had no forge-specific terms.

C. Edwards uses "color" and "fruitful void."

Ron's next post has no forge-specific terminology.

Vincent's post has no forge-specific terminology.

Geez, it's almost as if people at the Forge are speaking English rather than some crazy Forge jargon designed to keep other people out and make themselves look all fancy. They're just trying to think about things and figure out how things work, why they worked out the way they did, and what that could mean.

You wouldn't know that from the comments on Raggi's post though. Advice: if you post on the Forge about anything, watch out for your lunch money. You've marked yourself out as one of those smart kids who thinks they're better than the other kids and needs to be taken down a peg on the playground.

My OSR bretheren, I like you and I like what you're doing. But why do so many of you have a chip on your shoulder about the Forge?


Jeff Rients said...

I think it is simple tribalism at work. It's not that the Forge has its own weird terminology. The problem is that we already have our own weird terminology, so nertz to them.

Ed H said...

True dat, Jeff. BTW, I didn't mean to suggest you were doing that, cause you weren't.

Anonymous said...

That discussion doesn't exist in a vacuum and most people who are aware of the Forge already have strong opinions. It's called reading between the lines, in this case. Plus, a lot of folks think the Forge ideas about RPGs are just wrong-headed off the bat. It's a very insular, isolated and out of touch group to most "average" RPG players, who don't have the problems with gaming the Forge types think they do. The Forge has made their bed and now they must lie in it. It has nothing to do with the Taggi connectors being schoolyard bullies, they are just shouting down something wrong-headed and detrimental to the hobby, in their eyes.

Anonymous said...

Taggi connectors? Sorry. Raggi commentors!

Ed H said...

The "they were reading between the lines" thing would seem more compelling to me if anybody had bothered to actually read the lines.

So yeah. As far as I'm concerned everything I've said applies.

Anonymous said...




Andreas Davour said...

Yeah, this is an interesting case.

Personally I didn't get what Vincent were talking about in his first post. I even thought that Ron replied in a way which indicated he was as confused as I was.

Then when Vincent replied to Jim on his blog I suddenly understood what he meant.

People do speak differently in different context, even without jargon. Considering I actually know "forge speak" I find it interesting that I still didn't get Vincent point until he posted on Jim's blog.

Is it tribes fighting within my head, even? ;)